Kathryn and Dannion Brinkley's

Featured Interview
with
James Redfield

 

 

James Redfield single-handedly turned the world of spirituality and self-publishing upside down in 1993 with the release of his first book, The Celestine Prophecy. This incredible little book quicklybecame a metaphysical classic as it delineated the Nine Insights the author believed every member of humanity is acquiring as we are being catapulted into a time of unprecedented spiritual transformation. James subsequently wrote The Tenth Insight, and The Secrets of Shambhala. Now, twelve years later, he has just published his latest book in the Celestine Vision. It is entitled, The Twelfth Insight.

It is always such a pleasure to interview people whose work I deeply appreciate and admire. And if I also have the pleasure of calling them a friend, that's even better. James Redfield (and his gorgeous wife, Salle) have been friends for many years now. It was my husband, Dannion, who introduced me to them, so I decided to ask Dannion to help me interview James for this edition of Kinetics. We caught up with James, via telephone, while he was in Austin, Texas on the first leg of his new book tour. The conversation to follow focuses on his riveting new book, The Twelfth Insight...

Kathryn: Hello James, its Kathryn and Dannion here. How are you today?

James: Hey, I'm well, thanks for asking.

Dannion: Jimmy Red!

James: Dannion! I didn't know you were going to be on the call today, too. What a fun treat to get to talk with both of y'all.

Dannion: Oh, come on...you know I'm gonna always support you in everyway I can.

James: Well, that's means a lot to me, thanks.

Kathryn: So, how is the new book being received so far? Dannion told me that you had an enormous amount of presales....

James: Yes, it is going really well, and I'm having a lot of fun talking about it.

Kathryn: Well, immediately I want to tell you how much I enjoyed reading The Twelfth Insight. Of course, I love all of your books, James. I want to put it on record that I personally feel the Celestine Vision (which includes all of the books in your Celestine series) is the blueprint for the new world spirituality. And I want to thank you for that!

James: I love that kind of talk, Kathryn. Thank you!

Kathryn: James in The Twelfth Insight, you refer to the ending of the Mayan Calendar and what you think that means for humanity. There are so many opposing schools of thought on this subject so, please share your personal thoughts on this matter with us today.

James: Well, I think if you look at Carl Johan Calleman's work, and some of the other people that really studied the calendar, I believe it is certainly a prophecy. One that has been accurate throughout history, but I think that essentially what it is prophesying is what they call the Ninth Wave of Creation. Calleman speaks to that very directly. What certainly resonates with me is that there's a Unity Consciousness approaching, in our time, which is fascinating and great fun.

Kathryn:  Oh yes indeed! We are all fortunate enough to be living in one of most exciting, spiritual, and magical times in the history of the world!

James: Without a doubt! And then there is something else I believe and I address in The Twelfth Insight, and that is that we have to tune in to this consciousness. It is not going to be imposed upon us; we all have free will to a degree. I think that is what we are learning to do. We are getting clarity about the spiritual life, all the working parts, and how we can apply it to actual life with all our challenges and dreams. I think that is essentially what we are doing at this point. We are catching this new quickening and it is about tuning in to something. I think most people intuitively know that. I think what it feels like is the sense that we are sharpening all our perceptions, all these new faculties of mind are coming in. Of course, Dannion has them already, but the rest of us have to tune in to build them, and I think that is what we are doing.

Kathryn: That is because Dannion has been already through the 11th integration you write about in The Twelfth Insight - he's already been to the after life, three times!

James: That's right!

Dannion: Yeah, I'm just waiting for the rest of you to catch up! All kidding aside, James, when we reach this new level of Unity Consciousness, in what ways do you see the world changing?

James:  Well, I believe that it is going to be more luminous. We are going to have the same sort of positioning in life; we'll still be in a social circumstance, we'll still have to make a living.  I do not see this as an immediate ascension or a rapture of any kind.  I believe what we will begin to do, just by our own perception of it, the world is going to get more and more heavenly.  And it's going to feel that way. We will have a sense of magical synchronicities and this quickening intuition that can be trusted and that we will follow.  Of course, this in itself puts us in the position for a grand synchronicity to happen, which is always an opportunity we have, for more information coming in that helps us know how to steer the course of our lives.  So we will all be making contributions. There will be years of working on entrenched corruption in all the human institutions, but that will be inspiring at high, high levels, for all of us, as we do that.

Kathryn: Oh, I agree. In the new book you make mention of the 144,000. Is that all it is going to take for us to make this leap into Unity Consciousness?

James:  Well, of course, that is a biblical prophecy yet, it echoes so well because it's multiples of 12. I do believe that if we all could live it as purely as possible, that's all it would take. Because we would all reverberate; we set templates that would echo out in numbers of 12 that would be contagious. As it is, I think what we can strive to do is really live this fully integrated consciousness. I think that comes to us in its own time as all of us are working on stepping into that. As that begins to become fully integrated, and I think it already started obviously,  but then we have great influence, of course. That is one of the themes of the book: once we get into alignment, with the design of universe, then everything intensifies including our power to live by example. Our modeling power lifts other people into our consciousness. So, if we are striving to be in alignment, it helps to pull other people into alignment or make it easier for them to move into alignment.  That's the dynamic.  We often struggle to discover what we have to do to save the world; I think that's what I just wrote in this book -  it is my take on it.  I think that is what we are learning to do to save the world.

Kathryn:  Well, again I have to tell you how incredible I think The Twelfth Insight is. I was telling Dannion last night, what I love about your style is that it is so simple in its magnificence. 

James Redfield :  Thank you, that means a lot to me coming from you, Kathryn.

Kathryn: It is true...your style is absolutely gorgeous. Now, it has been 12 years since your last book was published. So, what inspired you to write this book, at this time?

Dannion: I did!

James Redfield:  Yes, I was tuning into Dannion,  that is right!

Dannion:  You know, James, when I listen to what you're saying, the template is already in place throughout the worldwide web and Facebook.  Everything you are describing, in the Unity Consciousness of the Mayan, has already began to show itself, in blogging - which is part of the worldwide consciousness - on the internet. Facebook is helping us to integrate socially on multiple facets, instead of being separate.  So much of what you are talking about is true and currently being expressed outwardly, especially from the Mayan perspective. 

James Redfield:  Yes, I agree, I mean I looked at all the stuff that has just happened in Egypt. I was just amazed at those kids over there. As you know, there are a lot of competing factions present, but that pure level of wanting to create a better government around them, these kids really laid it on the line.

Kathryn:  Yes, we have not seen anything close to that in America since the protest marches of the '60's.

Dannion:  But it was Facebook, the internet, their conscious connection that is driving the whole issue in the Middle East now.

James Redfield:  Yes, no doubt about it.

Kathryn:  Okay, gentlemen, getting back to the original question: James, what inspired you to write this book, at this time? And please allow me to add another element this to the question. I read in your acknowledgement that you thank astrologer, Albert Clayton Gaulden for his "cosmological timing" - do you use astrology when you decide upon a date to release a book?

James Redfield:  Well, as you know, Albert is an old pal. So, I do talk to him on timing issues, but it is never that deliberate.  The book finishes itself, when it finishes itself. It just easily turns out that it's at the right time. Honestly, though, I have been polishing this book since 2008; then I moved it to 2009. And then, you see when it came out... it's 2011 when the calendar is activated.  I just do what I am told. You know what I am talking about, I can't write about it unless I get clarity. I thought all along there was a 12th step that would manifest yet, it took this long for me to see it happening well enough to write about it in this book.

Dannion:  Jim, do you have a writing discipline that makes you sit down every day and write at the same time?  Or do you go into meditation before you right?

James Redfield:  A lot of magical things happened with this book.  I write best when I can get up early and start, about 5AM or so. And then, when it gets to be noon I'm done, whether I want to be or not. I really have to get into that routine, and I had some trouble, this time, turning my clock around where I could really feel good at 5:00 AM. So, at that point, an interesting thing happened. Salle and I have got a deck outside our upstairs bedroom that looks out over the lake. And in the mornings, instead of getting up at 5 AM, I kept falling back to sleep. Well, one morning a red Tangier, this skinny little red bird, appeared on the deck and sang this great little melody, until I woke up and I could not go back to sleep because of his singing. He did this for about two weeks, until I got into the habit of absolutely jumping up at 5AM!

Kathryn:  That is simply thrilling! What a great story...

James Redfield: I know...and the weird thing about me is when I write, the first draft is about a hundred pages long. After that I go through it, almost as if I 'm writing it over, but I am really kind of extending it here and extending it there.  I am really comparing what's down on paper with what's in my mind. So, it feels like I am comparing it to a book that is already finished.  It is an interesting process... very fun! Once I get the beginning, and the end, even though it is not complete, then the process of rewriting is really fun because I am just discovering what else needs to go in it.

Kathryn:  Yes, I've heard it said by several people I know that they write the last chapter first and then the book seems to easily write itself.

James Redfield:  You need a beginning and an end for sure.

Dannion: In The Twelfth Insight, you introduce a lot integrations leading up to the 12th insights.  Do you have a simple formula for people to remember and put them all into practice on a daily basis?

James Redfield: Well, I say this in the book, and I believe they build upon themselves.  So, once you integrate fully the first step, which is expecting synchronicity and telling the truth about what you are doing to yourself, and other people, that is an integration that's there. Then, the following integrations just make that larger so that you are centered in the truth of what you are doing; in what your soul wants to do. From that centeredness, in the truth, you can tell anybody what you are doing. It is a clarity in what your life is about, what is unfolding as your destiny. That is why I call it sustaining synchronicity because things start to happen and unfold and you feel like, “Oh, I'm on to something...this is what my soul wants to do!” Although the feeling may stop and start, I think what we will learn to do is stay there in that centered truth.  That is why it is so very important to tell the truth - to just radically say what is on your mind - in the most loving way, of course! Then it all just begins to build and you receive larger and larger clarity. Here is where you can tell what is intuition and what is not very quickly. You follow that, something magical happens, and then you are on the flow. So, that's why I tell people to practice the first one until it's working; everything will move forward from there.

Kathryn: Yes, I understand completely. The first integration in The Twelfth Insight will be very difficult for a lot of people to put into practice. In fact, I think for our culture it will be difficult because as you say (in the video on your website) we are so use to saying whatever needs to be said, just to close the deal, right? We tell little white lies not to hurt someone’s feelings or so we have a good enough excuse for not showing up on time. So those little white lies in our lives have got to be released, relinquished and eliminated if we are going to truly climb to the top of the ladder of Unity Consciousness.

James Redfield:  I believe that very much, and of course, it is difficult. But it is also simple. It is not like you have a real complex thing you are trying to remember to do; all you are trying to remember to do is tell the truth, as you know it. That always grows, of course, nobody has that much clarity about what the truth is.  It is always building and expanding in conversation with the people. Then meditation, connection, and intuition, and all that comes in as you expand that clarity.

Kathryn:  It is a beautiful thing you are helping people to realize. As you say in the book, telling the truth then flows naturally into conscious conversation.

Dannion: And we are absolutely baffled by people who are not in conscious conversation.  Jim, who are these people and where do you think they come from? (laughter)

James Redfield:  Well, as a culture we do it. Someone will ask,  “How are you doing?” and we answer,  “Well, I am okay.” Well, that's a lie! You're not okay at all. So, I'm suggesting that we start moving from small talk to big talk.

Kathryn:  I like that! And I really liked another line in your book where you were writing about intuition. You said it is harder to listen to your intuition when it changes your plans. I just had to laugh at that, and underline it, because it is so true. We are all into listening to our intuition as long as we are happy where it is taking us, right? But the minute something comes up that we do not like; we don't want to listen to our intuition anymore.

James Redfield:  The other thing I say, Kathryn, is that you’ve got to remember the payoff.  This can be hard because you have to change your habits, but the life on the other side is such a big pay off.  I am different; I know you can tell by listening to me, I am not the same. I think we are all a little bit "not the same" anymore because of something that is coming in that we’re taping into. Again, I talk a lot about the payoff - what you get for the effort - and it is really worth it. I think everybody knows at some level that it's their destiny; it is everybody’s destiny to get into that place.

Kathryn: You also write a lot about science meeting spirituality in The Twelfth Insight. What do you consider to be the most exciting aspect of spirituality and science merging you've witnessed since writing your first book?

Dannion:  Meeting me!

Kathryn: Honey, you are just a science meets spirituality miracle!

James Redfield: That is right! You know, I had a conversation, over dinner, with Barbie Dossey a couple of months ago (and talked to Larry on the phone). I know Dannion knows this already, but  talking to Larry Dossey is always an expansion, in his own gentle way.

Dannion:  Larry is just so wonderful.

James Redfield:  Yes, he is a contagion! Then there's Rupert Sheldrake. He did all the research on the clairvoyant, psychic dogs who knew when their masters were coming home. That was a hit, and I got a kick out of that! If you just pay attention to the way your pet behaves, it is pretty amazing. We've got our little dog, Tobby and he knows exactly when Salle has the idea that she's heading back home. I have been talking to her on the phone and could observe his behavior, and boy, he knows exactly when she's on her way.

Dannion:  But think about this, in the tsunami in Thailand, 200,000 human beings were killed in that tsunami and the only animals killed were those who were tied in cages. The rest of them had already moved up the side of the mountain, the morning before.

James Redfield:  Yes, you are absolutely right.

Dannion: Back in 1978, when Rupert wrote the Morphogenic Field theory, everyone criticized and ridiculed him. But until this day, no one has been able to prove it wrong - that we live in a field of consciousness. In this field, intuition makes us more aware and instincts makes us more connected than thought processes ever have.

James Redfield:  And we do know it on some level. I even write in the book that someday we will be the ones who know when the tsunami is coming.

Kathryn:  Another thing you wrote about was Feeling Identity, which I love because you were saying that every object has its own emotional identity. That's why we love certain pieces of furniture or certain places that we go. I wanted to ask you if that is an identity that they possess or an identity that we overlay on them because of our own emotional connection?

James Redfield:  Well, I think we tune into something about them. They have a presence in us and Gurdjieff called it objective arc, the impactive that flows from something to us. You know, it's like when friends or family members are much older and we say we are prepared for them to go, but when they go we grieve because something in us was lost that we did not realize we were taking for granted. This feeling connection, with the people and things in the world, is just part of our consciousness.

Kathryn:  You make a real point of the need for a healing to take place in the relationship between men and women on the planet.  You stress that we need to take it beyond sexual games into the unconditional realm of agape. I would like you to talk a little bit more about that part.

James Redfield:  Well, any mature man reaches the point where they make that transition. Maybe younger men are better at it than our age group because I do think it's a consciousness thing. It's that sexual charge, and all the social mores around it, and the status of conquest, and all the other garbage that happens between men and women. It is something that has to be cleared. And I think that it is balanced when you are operating at the consciousness where you are talking to another soul, as supposed to beautiful woman, or a not beautiful woman in your eyes. It will be cleared when we can break through being addicted to each other - male and female - and all the games and power trips that come from that, breaking through that is the same journey. The solution is moving to that soul to soul place, and again that is a perception people have to discover.

Kathryn:  Well, it seems every body is looking for their Twin Soul these days, and earlier you spoke of your beautiful wife, Salle. What is your secret for maintaining such a loving and sacred relationship?

Dannion:  Tobby! (laughter)

James Redfield:  Yes, I know that Tobby is an interesting mediator; I will tell Salle not to yell at me in front of Tobby! (more laughter)  But, you know, with couples, all the charges get ventilated every now and then. Yet, what matters is how soon you come back to soul. For me, that is what marks the progress certainly. Salle and I tell the truth to each other... loudly sometimes, but still with love and always comes back to that. It clears and comes back to soul.

Dannion: It is an appreciation of each other. Like with me and Kat, mine is appreciation whether it is the two of us as a couple or individuals.  I so appreciate who she is as much as I appreciate what we achieve together.

James Redfield:  Yes, that is well put.

Dannion: In the Twelfth Insight, you wrote in the acknowledgments how much you appreciated Salle's support and patience. I've come to realize how really important it is to appreciate and lovingly identify the person you are with. I think what I am trying to get across is Kat's smarter than me.  Someone asked me once, “Dannion why in the world would you get married at 50 years old?” I said “Well, Kathryn is beautiful, she kisses really well, and she is a lot smarter than I am.”

Kathryn:  Thank you, Darling, for those wonderful compliments. And now I'd like to shift gears just a little. James, you talked about something in the book that I know is very important to you and Salle. It's something I refer to as, nutrition-based enlightenment or ingesting clean food.

James Redfield:  I think it boils down to this: it is hard to work on consciousness when you are dull-minded from food filled with chemicals. Although some people are more susceptible than others, I think it tears down everybody’s body. Junk food is also a substitute for God; that yumminess that comes from glutamates. They are taste enhancers. It is the same yumminess when you've got this satisfied bliss, at home feeling, from a God connection. That is actually a spiritual activation of your glutamate receptors. There is food that will make you feel euphoric in that way, and to some degree it is addictive.  You can't ride by McDonalds without at least thinking about those french-fries!

Kathryn:  Not if you happen to smell them...

James Redfield:  They are yummy! But they are not yummy because they use good potatoes, they don't.

Dannion:  There is not a single thing to do with a potato in those fries! They're made of plastic, when you see "hydrogenized" that means plastic and filler.

James Redfield:  That is right, but it is cheap and they make a lot of money on it but it is doing great harm. If you look at the epidemics out there, they are off the scale. Once, they did not test for Alzheimer's until you were 64. Now it is down to the late 30s that they start testing for brain damage, and it is coming from the glutamates in our food. We are in a race to see how many chemicals we can put into the food to win the taste race.  That is what's going on and it’s wild.

Kathryn:  It is wild. The larger the restaurant chain, the more unnatural, artificial ingredients and preservatives are going into the food that you eat. That is why we always try to find little places owned by Ma and Pa because they are not only making their dishes with fresh ingredients, but they are putting all their love into it and we get to absorb that, too!

James Redfield:  Yes, that is right, and chances are they are not buying the seasonings that have so many glutamates in it.

Kathryn:  Exactly! James, I love the statement you made in the book that basically the whole meaning of life is for us to bring divine principles into physical manifestation. After I read that, I told Dannion last night, in order for us to create heaven on earth we all have to start acting more like angels.

James Redfield:  Well, if people want to know the meaning of life, you just said it. 

Dannion:  People do not really understand, Jim, that the purpose of becoming of a spiritual being in physical form is to become a medium through which the Divine can pass from its level of consciousness, through your thoughts and actions, into this mental/material level of consciousness.

Kathryn:  Yes, and I believe there is one more component to that, and you James referred to it in the book. When we are residing in the heavenly realms, we do not really have a choice as to how we behave.  There is one mind; there is only Divine Will.  So, it is only by coming to Earth and being in the free will zone that we can manifest those divine principles, by choice, simply because they are the right thing to do. We do have a choice here. We are put to the test here...

James Redfield:  Yea, we can eat French fries! (laughter)

Kathryn:  Yes, we can eat French fries, and we can kill people and we can do all kinds of horrible things if we choose. We are going to have to look at it when we get back home and have our life review, but here you have free will. It is the true test of our divinity and that is why only the most courageous of us come here - because it is not an easy test.

James Redfield:  Yes, I agree.

Kathryn:  James, I've come to my last question for you: what do you want your readers to walk away with after reading your fascinating new book, The Twelfth Insight?

James Redfield:  I really just walk them to grot, to open up to, the grand design of the universe because we are all figuring out how to live spiritually in this world. And the last in our alignment is our return to integrity. There are a lot of people calling themselves spiritual, but there is a piece is missing.  Everywhere, we are all coming back to that place where radical truth, get into alignment, and act in service to other people in truth. Just like the old scripture says, "you act with honor over little and you're given much." That is how you grow into the rest of it. I sincerely hope that people can tune in to the fact that we are on the verge of putting all this together, so that we really can accelerate everything and live in the world of miracles.  I can consider the world really a latent dream machine.  We're just learning to turn it on.

Kathryn:  That is so beautifully put! Do you think there is any chance that we are not going to get it all together?

James Redfield: Well, I think that the answer to that is no! Of course, we're all going to get it together; there is no chance that we will not do it, we may just not do it here. We might be doing it somewhere else. I think that we will do it here, in this dream, or in another dream, but there is a necessity around it.  I mean, playing this out where we learn to do it in this dimension or one just  like it is what the whole program's about.

Kathryn:  I so agree with that, James. It is an imperative because creation does not end. It is never going to end. We might be in the ninth step of this particular creation, but there are nine more steps beyond this, and nine more beyond that! So we have to get to that next level to step up.

Dannion:  It is proven that the universe keeps expanding.

James Redfield:  Well, I believe it and I am very excited to move through this step.

Kathryn:  I am just glad we all get to be here to do it together.

James Redfield:  Yes, I agree.

Kathryn:  James, you have a magnificent talent, and we thank you so much for spending this time with us today.

James Redfield: My pleasure.

James Redfield is the New York Times best-selling author of 'The Celestine Prophecy.' In 1995 and 1996 'The Celestine Prophecy' was the #1 American book in the world, and the #1 international bestseller of 1996. This phenomenal novel spent over 3 years on the New York Times best sellers list.

Redfield continued the story with the sequels 'The Tenth Insight: Holding the Vision' and 'The Secret of Shambhala: In Search of the Eleventh Insight.'

The final installment in the Celestine series, 'The Twelfth Insight: The Hour of Decision,' has been released February 2011 by Grand Central Publishing.

James Redfield is also the author of the non-fiction title, 'Celestine Vision,' and co-author of 'God and the Evolving Universe.' He co-wrote and co-produced the film version of 'The Celestine Prophecy Movie.'